la bonne musique

Comment from coos
Time: August 21, 2007, 6:18 am

Great initiative! Maybe an idea for a website…

Comment from Dave
Time: August 21, 2007, 10:08 am

Good idea, porn is less damaging anyway. Its not judgemental.

Comment from Vjuggalo
Time: August 21, 2007, 11:19 am

Such intelligence put into this one, “Smut for Smut”.

When you believe in nothing then you have to stand for something. No matter how pathetic it is. As long as you have time off from your computer playing the latest MMORPG. You may as well spend the free time doing something. Forget dating. Just bash Christians as any atheist would.

Again, are atheists are proud of these people representing them? This person who wrote the article is even worse. Have they ever heard of punctuation and capitalization? You know, things you should have learned through first and second grade. To be called ingenious by the author of this has to be an insult.

Comment from admin
Time: August 21, 2007, 12:16 pm

much appreciated Vjuggalo. i see irony isnt lost on you. refer here for info as to why your going to have a hard time finding any form of proper punctuation or anything presented in the upper case on this blog.

“Forget dating. Just bash Christians as any atheist would.”

first of all, my faithless girlfriend is way hotter than your Pope Benedict XVI inflatable, and way freakier - though not always up for the backdoor, so you’ve kinda got me there. but bashing christians, really? i thought we took it pretty easy with this one. could have done a lot worse. which isnt really the point anyway. im not out to bash christians. thats like saying im out to bash 4 year olds for believing playdough is a food group. and really, the unfortunate thing is that there even needs to be a term like atheist for you to be able use in situations like this. that just propagates the same mob mentality, group think we’ve already come to love from the religious. i should never feel the need to define myself by something i do not believe in, but the unfortunate omnipotent belief in the presence of some crazy fucker in the sky who watches everything we do kind of forces me to do so. especially when those beliefs in said crazy fucker limit the exploration of science and understanding to a book that has been translated and misinterpreted by thousands of dipshits over 20 centuries in countless languages (some of which are now dead and untranslatable). we dont have a special name for people who aren’t mentally disabled, they’re just normal people. this wickedly poignant quote from richard dawkins might put it in a little perspective for you. “you are just as much an atheist as i am, i just take it one god further.”

“When you believe in nothing then you have to stand for something.”

im pretty sure this doesnt make any sense. nevertheless, two more very common misconceptions. number one, i believe in many many things. i believe in life, death, love, happiness, art, humanity, sex, music, poetry, the universe, our planet, science, logic, reason, understanding, IRONY, humor, progress, freedom, equality, laughter, singing, dancing and not feeling guilty about getting a nice bj on a sunday while i eat a sandwich and watch a little hbo.
secondly, i dont have to stand for anything. its infinitely more comfortable using logic and reason whilst sitting down. better for digestion too.

lastly,

“As long as you have time off from your computer playing the latest MMORPG. You may as well spend the free time doing something.”

like commenting on peoples ridiculous blog’s who i find to be intellectually inferior to me? i always find this amusing. hats off to you sir.

Comment from daverhillcrest
Time: August 21, 2007, 3:01 pm

Tally ho admin. a well executed put down if ever there was one.

Pingback from The OriginalUnOriginal.Com (Satire and comedy not to be confused with The Onion) » Trade in Your Porn for . . . Porn
Time: August 21, 2007, 5:34 pm

[…] you take your old bibles and other religious materials and, much like the toys for guns program, you trade them in for some porn. Written by Rev. Gary Wayne Lee Bookmark […]

Comment from admin
Time: August 21, 2007, 5:45 pm

thanks for the link gary.

Comment from Vjuggalo
Time: August 23, 2007, 8:17 am

Who the fuck said i was Catholic or even a Christian for that matter? You poor sheltered person *pats head*

I didn’t have time to read your rambling, sorry. I don’t really care about what you believe in. Yet somehow you’re so preoccupied with your beliefs that you have enough time to bash the beliefs of others. Do you do that while your “girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever” you’re into goes down on you? You’re such a deep person.

Comment from admin
Time: August 23, 2007, 2:44 pm

once again Vjuggles, the effervescence of your awesomeness tickles my prostate like a priests middle finger. so here we go. one more time.

“who the fuck said i was catholic or even a christian for that matter?”

guilt by association my friend. you feel strongly enough about the faith to defend it, except you havent really defended anything. you dont even need to tell us what your beliefs are. you felt that the content of the original post was a christian “bashing”. its kind of moot beyond that.

“you poor sheltered person *pats head*”

im kind of a baller actually. but i understand the context was meant to make it seem like im somehow deserving of pity or sympathy for my lack of aptitude regarding the subject matter. touché! we’re dealing with a real wordsmith here. a vernacular the most adept 7th grade debate team captain would envy. sheltered however, is a word i typically associate with people that havent had to do or face something unpleasant in their lives. the experiences they’ve endured have been limited in someway by the protective cover of something like parental guidance or religious indoctrination - which to date is most likely the greatest source for stifled life experiences, namely nookie and most other things that are enjoyable. i dont know if you’ve had time to peruse the rest of the site at all, but im convinced the content wouldnt let anyone assume the author is sheltered in anyway. a little weird and slightly perverted? yes. sheltered? no.

“I didn’t have time to read your rambling, sorry.”

yeeeeeeeeah riiiiiiiiiiiiight. its cool though man. admitting you had read it means you would have had to rebut it. and it was a lot of words. my apologies.

“I don’t really care about what you believe in.”

then why are we having this conversation?

“Yet somehow you’re so preoccupied with your beliefs that you have enough time to bash the beliefs of others.”

this statement contradicts itself. the way preoccupation is used would mean that im too wrapped up in my own beliefs to have enough time to bash others for their beliefs. i totally have enough time. i’ll give you that. though, i thought you said i didnt believe in anything? and like stood for something or something….you werent making much sense there either. but yes, i am absolutely, completely and entirely preoccupied with my own beliefs. they’re my beliefs man.

“Do you do that while your “girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever” you’re into goes down on you?”

no. that would be rude. i told you. i eat sandwiches and watch hbo. but im curious how you manged to assume i was labeling you a catholic without referencing the pope benedict inflatable jab? in that same sentence i mentioned my girlfriend. stay with me man.

“you’re such a deep person”

like the ocean…and the womb that spawned you.

Comment from Oakhurst
Time: August 23, 2007, 6:15 pm

Jesus died for my sins… No really. I hit him with my car while I was ko’ing a line of blow out of a hooker’s ass crack.

Comment from admin
Time: August 23, 2007, 6:37 pm

‘nice’

Comment from blackmage
Time: August 24, 2007, 12:58 am

StumbledUpon this site. Great laughs. Sorry to hear you gettin the rap from a$$hats like Vjuggles, but the brainwashing of modern religion does that to you. I’m a JW survivor. My term for someone who has been, and is no longer, a Jehovah’s Witness. To have the perspective of being in an all-controlling religion, and then being free of it to see ‘hey, they are using this as a way to keep them controlled… believe in us and you get salvation!’ Yay! I need salvation like I need a hole in my head. The more we get our collective heads out of the clouds and back to Earth, where our real concerns lie, the sooner we’ll be able to learn and grow as a people.

Comment from someasshole
Time: August 29, 2007, 12:15 pm

very nice Vjuggalo, i can tell by your name that your an idiotic fan of the “goth/emo/lame” band insane clown possie. you’re choice of name is a very bad way to shield that you’re a dumbass teen who is so angsty he has nothing better to do than bash on ppls blogs
…. oh shit seems like thats exactly waht im doing, oh well at least i admit im an asshole

Comment from mistermooster
Time: August 29, 2007, 12:15 pm

You know, Vgigilo is right. I believe in nothing, and I have to stand to reach the top shelf of the refrigerator.

Comment from Acolyte of The DoobJesus
Time: August 29, 2007, 12:19 pm

death to regular jesus
all hail weedjesus

Comment from kjd
Time: August 29, 2007, 3:48 pm

You are all spending too much time on Mr. (or Ms.) Vjuggalo. Since he or she is obviously religious, logic, irony, and normal modes of human communication are not possible. I don’t mean this as a put-down of Vjuggalo, it is just that there is a level of intellectual discourse that religion strongly discourages, and thus, few believers ever achieve.

Picking on the religious is unfair, and unseemly. We should treat them as we would any disadvantaged person, with understanding and compassion.

Comment from Juggalo(noV)
Time: August 29, 2007, 7:30 pm

Vjuggalo. If your name is derived from what I think it’s from, wipe the paint off your face, you disgrace it. And porn for bibles? I think that’s an amazing idea. No one reads their bibles all the way through anyway. They select certain parts that depict the good god does and repeats it, hoping the bad of god will go away. If you were a real Juggalo, you’d be right there with them, handing out the porn buddy. It’s not about bashing the religion, what their doing, it’s about persuading them away from something they really don’t need, and giving them something much, much better.

Comment from Senada
Time: August 29, 2007, 8:07 pm

Well kjd…while i do agree that you should not pick on the mentally handicapped, it’s just so damn entertaining sometimes.

Comment from Ender
Time: August 29, 2007, 8:32 pm

Fuck religion and fuck christians. Stupid fucks.

Comment from Pewma
Time: August 30, 2007, 3:55 am

“If your name is derived from what I think it’s from, wipe the paint off your face, you disgrace it.”

The article was good, but I’m sorry, that statement is the funniest thing on this page.

Comment from Umbral
Time: August 30, 2007, 7:07 am

ALL HAIL RAPTOR JESUS HE WENT EXTINCT FOR YOUR SINS.

http://raptorjesus.ytmnd.com/

Comment from Umbral
Time: August 30, 2007, 7:09 am

Many apologies, this is the correct website.

http://raptorj.ytmnd.com

Comment from Stephen
Time: August 30, 2007, 8:16 am

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Wish I had thought of it during my university days!

Comment from bill
Time: August 30, 2007, 9:23 pm

religion is a mental holocaust of unprecedented proportions….
and thats all I have to say on that subject

Pingback from smut (religion) for smut (porn) « In the Name of Towelie!
Time: August 31, 2007, 9:39 am

[…] Picked up from la bonne musique  […]

Comment from Jon Dough
Time: August 31, 2007, 11:00 am

“Again, are atheists are proud of these people representing them? This person who wrote the article is even worse. Have they ever heard of punctuation and capitalization?”
I love the extra ‘are’ in the 1st scentance, quite ironic the very simplistic gramatical error in light of the accusations of punctuation and capitalization.

Then again, in my opinion, language is simply a tool of communication. Bad language only becomes a problem when it interferes with the ability of others to understand roughly the idea you intended to communicate. Yes, delivery gives connotations to the message, and if you give the wong connotations that can mutate the message beyond what you intended to say — this is not the type of situation I advocate flexability in. I think we need to stop being sticklers about grammar, spelling, and punctuation when they don’t interfere with what’s otherwise a fairly streightforward idea.

Comment from Paco De Mingo
Time: August 31, 2007, 2:23 pm

These kids, while cheeky, are sending the wrong message, that pornography = aethism. I suspect that they more enjoy pushing the buttons of bible beaters than really spreading the logical argument of aethism.

I guess that if you are a bible beater ready to convert from Christianity, you’ll need something else to beat… hence the porn.

Comment from admin
Time: August 31, 2007, 3:22 pm

Paco - i concur. the porn drive doesnt really do much for the cause. i dont really believe they are out to change minds there anyway. i dont foresee anyone losing their faith at the drop of a hat from a simple discussion at a folding table on the campus green. 2000 years of blind faith is an arduous uphill battle. people seem to find their way to logic when they are ready for it. its just the simple action of making it known that non-theists have a place on campus. they exist. and they’re quietly asserting their freedom of speech right next to the creepy, glazey-eyed, white button up t-shirted, sexually oppressed old white guy with a greasy comb-over and a sweat gland issue that accosts you with those tiny little green bibles on the way in from the parking lot every morning before you’ve even had a chance to rub the first one of the day out or grab a coffee. those bastards are way more offensive than double penetration midget sex (or DPMS as i so often refer to it as. what?…….i like to party).

Comment from lba
Time: August 31, 2007, 4:31 pm

I’ve got a korans, torahs, bibles (gideon and many others), and a book of the dead. How do i get the porn?

Comment from wiff whopper
Time: September 1, 2007, 12:07 pm

haha! nice, very nice. im getting sick of the multitudes of humans that are so ignorant and sucked into society by these religions, that they cant do anything else except for talk about church and how jesus will smite you to hell forever if you dont listen to his ass.

Comment from Bruce McGoose
Time: September 1, 2007, 5:38 pm

@Vjuggalo

“When you believe in nothing then you have to stand for something.”
What the hell kind of logic is that? It’s like saying “If you wear jeans on a Thursday, you have to eat custard three times.”
C’mon! Think before your write! It’s not too hard.

“No matter how pathetic it is. As long as you have time off from your computer playing the latest MMORPG. You may as well spend the free time doing something. Forget dating. Just bash Christians as any atheist would.”
I find it funny you have a go at this guy about how he writes, yet that was written so poorly. Go easy on those periods, add a comma for effect every now and then

“Again, are atheists are proud of these people representing them?”
It’s just a simple exercise to make people think. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what they did at all.

“This person who wrote the article is even worse. Have they ever heard of punctuation and capitalization? You know, things you should have learned through first and second grade.”
You must have a pretty sucky life, to be so bitter that you’ll decide to diss someone on the internet for how they write.
You didn’t even come up with a decent argument.

“To be called ingenious by the author of this has to be an insult.”
Haha. You failed there. Why would being called ingenious by anyone “be an insult”? The whole point of that construct is “personX is bad at something. personX says somebody else sucks at something”. The insult comes from the fact that even personX thinks they’re bad at it, implying that they’re worse.

Now to pick at one of your later posts a little.

“I don’t really care about what you believe in. Yet somehow you’re so preoccupied with your beliefs that you have enough time to bash the beliefs of others.”
What? You’re the one that came across his blog, and had to start a silly internet argument. Not only that, you then came back to respond once more.

“Do you do that while your “girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever” you’re into goes down on you?”
Seriously? You write that after criticising this guy’s writing?
Firstly, why the hell did you put quotation marks around the girlfriend etc part? Secondly, it doesn’t make sense. “whatever” shouldn’t have been included with “girlfriend/boyfriend”. Here’s how you should have written it:
“Do you do that while your girlfriend/boyfriend, or whatever you’re into, goes down on you?”
See how much better that is?

Comment from inkblot
Time: September 2, 2007, 8:54 am

Religions just motivate people, the same way a public figure would. What people do when motivated ranges from saving lives to ending them. Atheists think they have a clean slate. The genocides in the Soviet Union and China say otherwise. And do you all think that every Christian is an evangelical? That’s usually the kind of anti-Christian paranoia reserved for Pagans. I’m an atheist, but at least I leave the religious people to their irrationality. If it makes them feel better about death, then I won’t bother them about it.

Comment from inkblot
Time: September 2, 2007, 8:57 am

And I LOVE how you all jumped on Vjuggalo. Apparently, anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a (god forbid) Christian. Honestly, that’s pretty much the same policy the Christians use.

Comment from Kevin Jacobs
Time: September 2, 2007, 9:13 pm

Nicholas Megalis is a fucking asshole. www.nicholasmegalis.com

Comment from Punchy
Time: September 3, 2007, 12:05 am

@Inkblot
Are you a fucking idiot?
“The genocides in the Soviet Union and China say otherwise.”
Are you saying that I am in the same group as them because we don’t believe in a god? What the hell does mine, the admin’s or your supposed lack of belief in a higher power have to do with what a communist dictatorship does? Your logic is ass backwards.
Remember, not believing in something should not put you in a group, regardless of labels put on you.

Comment from Cmalbatros
Time: September 3, 2007, 5:58 am

Most organized religions suck. This whole one god thing sucks. Why? Goes like this - 1. Q. Do you believe in God? A. No. Bang you’re dead. 2. Q. Do you believe in God? A. Yes. Q. Do you believe in my god? A. No. Bang you’re dead. Frankly I don’t care what you do or don’t believe in so long as it hurts no one and doesn’t interfere with my life. Most religions should practice peace and understanding and be open to debate, be good and kind to one another and we will all go to heaven, if there is one. As John Lennon said “Imagine if there’s no religion” etc.

Comment from widget
Time: September 3, 2007, 6:20 am

@ inkblot

A good quote I’ve heard recently is “Why do Atheists care about religion? The same reason a doctor cares about disease.”

While it might be perfectly possible for atheists to wander around their entire lives and completely ignore the fact that some people believe in a god, it isn’t that way in some parts of the world.
Here I shall cite America. Being as how it is just *so* Christian/religious and yet still have freedom of speech, it was always going tobe the place where Atheism first caused the issues that it is currently doing.
Britain has had non-believers for a long time now. So much so that I think practising Christians may be getting to be somewhere near the minority.

Religions motivate people? Well perhaps it’s time that there was a different sort of motivation. Why should it only be the thought of an afterlife of pain that causes people to be good?

The Atheists who, for want of a better descriptive phrase, have a holier than thou attitude are of course mistaken when they think that atheist rulers have done no wrong (killing priests etc.). However Atheism doesn’t have a set of rules that have to be adhered to, nor are we govered by a supreme leader (case in point the pope: “Everyone, we don’t believe in Limbo anymore. Ok?”)

You’re correct in your opinion that a lot of people think Christian=Bible waving evangelical. That isn’t the case of course and you get a spectrum with whatever group you’re dealing with.

And why are Christians being bashed round here? Well how likely is it that you can hold such views and openly talk about them in an Islamic state without being slapped down in one form or another?
Western world = forefront of (supposed) freedom of speech = where it’s going to kick off.

Comment from dom
Time: September 4, 2007, 9:31 am

Rubbish, I wouldnt trade my bible for porn, putting my religious views aside, porn is degrading and many women are offended by it. So I’d say porn is more damaging than possesing a bible.

Comment from Someone
Time: September 4, 2007, 10:02 am

I got kicked out of my cousins wedding because I refused to go up for communion after the ceremony. The priest asked why and I told him because I was an atheist. He told me to please leave. I’m glad he said please, i was worried he would be impolite.
Oh, I was in the wedding party, by the way.

*Now where did I leave those adorable Lions….

Comment from Lonnus Maximus
Time: September 4, 2007, 10:29 am

@Juggalo(noV)

“No one reads their bibles all the way through anyway.”

And who watches all the way through their porn with no fast forwarding?

Comment from veryNiceKitty
Time: September 4, 2007, 10:39 am

It’s funny to me that people somehow believe that atheism requires a void of morality. A person who believes there is only birth, death and life in our experience, yet decides to act in a benevolent and/or socially-positive manner has made a far more impressive decision than someone who makes the same decision because they think their alternative is eternal torture in some medieval-themed afterlife.

The fact is that i, for one, refuse to excuse. I will not excuse religious expression, belief, teaching nor especially will i tolerate legislation of religious tenets. Thinking people who say things like “religion is fine as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone” are PART OF THE PROBLEM. Religion is NOT fine. Religion is mental manipulation via the use of legend and myth.

As we use words like “well-intentioned” and “misguided” while we tolerate psuedo- and mainstream-believers, they use the same language to tolerate extremists. Tolerance of people’s beliefs has always been the laudable cry of the liberal thinking-class, but that tolerance begets tolerance of more and more strict interpretations of religious belief.

Non-religious people support the beliefs of semi-religious people by saying “they’re a little odd, but they’re harmless.” Semi-religious people support the beliefs of the very-religious, the very-religious support the ultra-religious, and the ultra-religious teach myth, legend, and developmental-morality anecdotes as fact. When those teachings filter back down to the non-religious we say, “… so long as they keep it to themselves”. Ergo, non-religious people who do not speak out against religion support it instead.

I personally don’t want to see any legislation on the subject of religion, this is not a political issue. I personally do take every opportunity to bash-the-jesus out of atheists who say religion is “OK”. It isn’t. Anyone who believes religion, especially western religion, is harmless, OBVIOUSLY isn’t paying attention.

peace,
VeryNiceKitty

Comment from Pedro Bermudez
Time: September 5, 2007, 5:59 am

Did anyone notice the words of pastor Rick Hawkins calling the students “fools”? Folks, when you do not agree with them, all their “teachings” turn to insults! That is religion in one phrase and expressed by one of their “leaders”.

Comment from Jake
Time: September 5, 2007, 6:59 pm

i love hte dude on the left’s at the drive-in shirt. i ahev that one

Comment from Don Smith
Time: September 6, 2007, 6:13 am

Admin…regardless of your beliefs, your efforts, your religion (or lack thereof), your punctuationlessness (sometimes you have to make up the right word), and your porn-watching ways, you are smart and entertaining. Kudos kiddo.

Comment from ShadowKnight
Time: September 6, 2007, 11:33 am

First, a quick intro:

I am a Christian, worse than that, I’m training to be a Vicar. Got that? Ready? good.

I feel I really need to stand up for Faiths in general. Not just mine, but all that are out there.

1. Can we PLEASE try to seperate from the Religion, and the belivers, or, in some cases, the Organised Religion? To my knowledge there is not a religion out there that truly believes in the death to all those that don’t believe the way they do. A lot of people do tend to merge the “Old” Testament, and the “New” Testament. It is generally considered that the “Old” testament is like version 1, and it got a rules update in the “New”.

2. Mostly it’s the “Fundies” that give the rest of us a bad name. Americans probably know the feeling better than this poor brit. The fundies are the ones who will merrirly believe that they have a God-given right to destroy anyone who doesn’t agree.

3. “Picking and choosing from the bible”. Good point. We all do. Generally referred to as a “Personal Theology”. IT’s the same way that you pick and choose from your porn mags. You pick the bests bits, the stuff that suits you. Mostly, those of us not frothing at the mouth simply follow the “greatest commandment of all”, “Be Excellent to Each Other” (JC, or was it Bill and Ted?)

And now to respond to the main post:

Exchange my bible for porn? In what world? though perhaps I Should explain that my bible is old, and worth a bit =).

As a side note, did those that did exchange their bible for porn, get one mag per bible? or did they get several, you know, one per book of the bible? Just curious if it was a fair trade.

I personally feel the idea is quite Genious. Shame it won’t work the other way round eh? “Porn for a Bible” :).

Thanks for Listening.

SK

Pingback from Something Imaginative » Porn 1, God 0
Time: September 6, 2007, 11:36 am

[…] http://labonnemusique.com/blog/2007/08/20/porn-1-god-0/ […]

Comment from jay
Time: September 6, 2007, 5:25 pm

“‘we consider the bible to be a very negative force in the history of the world,’ student ryan walker said.”

call me crazy and lacking the ironical cackling laughter i should have while reading this, but no one in this forum has touched on the effects of pornography and its negativity toward other groups, including children, young girls, young boys, poor household inanimate objects…

i mean, yeah, i get the “sensationalized” rhetoric of their objective, but still, all of this p.r. could have been better served with a real proclamation of anti-faith. or a discussion group.

jeeeez i really really forget what it’s like to be an undergrad.

Comment from Andrew Stangl
Time: September 7, 2007, 1:16 am

I feel like I really need to respond to SK up there:

1. No, we can’t separate religion, organized religion, and people who call themselves “believers”. We can’t do this because at the end of the day, there’s no such thing as religion, just people. Thus those people who happen to be believers are creating all of the afore mentioned terms to describe themselves and their faith groups. How can we separate people from the terms they create for themselves?

2. It’s not just the fundies. Even the most liberally religious person contributes to the problem by enabling the more conservative religious people. If you have the time, I recommend Sam Harris’ “The End of Faith” which covers this topic more in-depth and far better than I can.

3. Are you really saying that picking and choosing from the Bible is an acceptable practice? Isn’t this just believing what you want to and using an ancient religion to justify it? How could anyone’s beliefs stand up to rational inquiry when they go down this road?

And to respond to jay up there:

Can you actually cite evidence that porn is detrimental to anyone other than simply making the claim? I’ll even take a link to a scientific, peer-reviewed study if you like.

Comment from GeoffBoulton
Time: September 7, 2007, 1:17 am

1. There isn’t a religion out there that believes in death to all those that don’t believe….

Whilst their texts generally discourage killing they are often so contradictory that they can be interpreted to mean anything, hence the confusion amongst those who preach or believe in those texts. For example: Though shalt not kill followed by a whole host of things for which a person should be put to death.

Hence Muslims killing infidels, Christians killing people who work in clinics that perform abortions or as prostitutes. How about Christians killing Christians such as happened in Northern Ireland for some 30 years? While we’re on the subject of Northern Ireland whose money paid for the violence? Oh yes, a great deal of it came from holier than though American Christians, not necessarily fundies, who are supposed to believe its wrong to kill.

Indeed, one of the central tenets of most religions is that believers are somehow special. This whole idea makes it easy for believers to condone the killing of, as they see it, lesser people. Wasn’t that at the root of Adolf Hitler’s (a Catholic) persecution of the Jews? A persecution that was given active support from the Vatican even to the point of priests actively helping to round up the Jews in places such as Jasenovac.

On the point of the Old Testament vs the New Testament; why couldn’t an omniscient God get the rules right in the first telling? Is he really so inept that he needed to change his mind?

Maybe he just wanted to reflect the changes in society? Well, if that’s the case then isn’t it about time religious leaders took his lead and started changing their stance on issues such as Homosexuality to reflect the norms of today’s society?

If you are saying that this can’t be done because the bible specifically says it is a sin then how about resurrecting some of the other sins in the bible? Let’s start killing anyone who works on a Sunday for instance

2. Mostly it’s the fundies that give us a bad name….

At which point does someone become a fundy? VeryNiceKitty made the point very well; one person’s fundy is another persons fellow believer.

Even the most moderate American Christian believes that America is one nation under God, despite the fact that the founding fathers tried their best to keep religious beliefs out of things, and that the 10 Commandments should be put up on public buildings. These people are quite happy to try and enforce their beliefs upon everyone else in the country irrespective of the beliefs that those other people hold. In my book that makes them fundies!

3. Picking and choosing from the bible….

People choose the bits that they like and are most in keeping with their personal beliefs? Hang on a minute, aren’t we talking about the word of God here? If you are a believer then surely you should be listening to ALL that he has to say. Who are you to decide which bits fit your personal beliefs and which bits don’t? Are you saying that you know better than God?

Don’t go giving me that old free-will argument, the rules are Gods rules. Follow them and go to heaven, don’t and go to hell. There are no good bits and bad bits there are only Gods rules and teachings. Stop making apologies for the murders, rapes, child abuse, slavery, etc. and face up to what the bible really tells you.

Comment from ShadowKnight
Time: September 7, 2007, 3:26 am

Well, well, I thought it would stir up a hornets nest.

Andrew Stangl: I can see your point. The moniker of “a religion” is often used to describe everyone. This does, of course, group us all in together. To that end, I suppose it is very difficult to seperate people from their labels. However, I would suggest that perhaps sweeping generalisations of stereotypes is a bad thing. Not just for religion, but for anything.
I will try to get ahold of the book you mentioned. It seems like it would be an interesting read.
Beliefs standing up to rational enquiry? I can see your point. The one bit that’s always difficult to explain is the “spiritual” side of Religion. The feeling that you can describe, and despite all attempts at logic, refuses to go away. That, I fear is a longer debate, which again, I would be quite happy to have, though I think we might be loosing site of the issue.
On the subject of “picking and choosing” from the bible, you have to remember that the Anglican church subscribes to the ideas of the New Testament, we were sent JC to explain the ways of God. JC was pretty sane, and mostly advocated loving one another. It is those bits that to me are important. It’s very dificult to subscribe to information used to help a nomadic tribe (Numbers, Deuteronomy, Leviticus). This are ways of keeping a lost nomadic tribe alive, and not very useful in modern Society. I am aware that many people will use that statement to dismiss the bible out of hand. If you really want to discuss it, we can.

GeofBoulton: The texts are indeed contradictory. I can well understand why you’d get annoyed with the fact that God felt he needed to clarify a few things (especially as in some cases He himself is directly involved, so the book tells us). On the point of Norther Ireland, just so you know, that was ALSO a political struggle. Yes, it was funded by Americans, but then, the same people you mentioned also teach creationism in schools. This is not something I subscribe too. To answer your point that isn’t it time that the Church started changing, then I do agree. I think I would like to point you to my blog (linked), just to give you an idea. I’m a Brit, and also have a very dim view of the idea of the American “One Land Under God”. And it appears, on what makes people fundies, we have the same book.

You do all seem to get upset that the Bible contains the Old testament. It is there as a precursor to the arrival of JC. He tells us that there are two commandments “love God above all others, and love your neighbour” (paraphrased).

I am in NO WAY making appologies for any kind of rape, or murder etc. They may be listed in the OT, but not (to my knowledge) the new. If you are referring to actions done by “Christians”, then take a look at what America has done in the name of “protecting democracy”, or perhaps what China has done in the name of protecting the state.

SK

Comment from GeoffBoulton
Time: September 7, 2007, 5:49 am

I agree that the spiritual side of religion is difficult to explain however the feelings described by adherents of many religions, some of which do not believe in any God, are also described by those who claim to have been abducted by aliens for example or even simply by those who are just suffering from a mental illness.

Unless all of these manifestations are going to be put down to God then surely the more logical explanation is that such feelings are the product of human psychology. Indeed, the artifacts and practices of many religions are designed to elicit exactly that psychological state; the awe inspiring grandeur of their places of worship, the meditative action of praying and the rhythmic, sometimes chant like, delivery of the sermons for example.

That this state is real is in no doubt, it has been replicated in the laboratory, but the work of God? Difficult to see how the electrical stimulation of the brain by scientists is God’s chosen way of manifestation.

The fact that the Anglican church subscribes to the New Testament is a cry I often hear from other religions. Aren’t the 10 commandments, the core tenet of Christianity, in the Old Testament? Doesn’t it also say that the rules are for all time?

This is exactly the sort of picking and choosing that is being talked about; we like the 10 commandments, they’re the bit everyone remembers, but we don’t like the rest so we’ll just forget about it and concentrate on the New Testament. Talking of which, didn’t Jesus also say something about not bringing peace but a sword? I don’t hear that being recited very often in church so it seems that the Old Testament isn’t the only part of the bible that is up for picking and choosing.

Yes, I am well aware of the situation in Northern Ireland. I too am British, lived in Belfast for 2 years during the troubles, listened to the rhetoric of the holy men and the hatred in the voices of Catholics and Protestants alike when talking about members of the ‘other’ religion. The fact remains that without the religious persecution of the Catholic minority by the Protestant majority the political struggle would never really have amounted to much more than the current Scottish or Welsh nationalism and the ongoing bitterness, from some quarters, regarding how badly the English treated them in years gone by.

I am not the least bit upset that the bible contains the Old Testament. It’s your holy book and you can have whatever you want in it. Wouldn’t it be more credible though to stop playing the “we base our teachings on Jesus” game and just do away with the Old Testament altogether. It wouldn’t be the first time a religion has edited gospels or even excluded them from the bible altogether when they didn’t fit the theology of the time and I’m sure it wouldn’t be the last.

I agree with you totally about what America has done in the name of democracy and China’s protecting of the state. They too are the product of ideologies that rely upon people believing and doing what they are told without questioning. Ideology, Theology, what’s the difference? Believe what we say and a better world awaits you.

Comment from ShadowKnight
Time: September 7, 2007, 8:31 am

GeofBoulton: I have to applaud you. That was well written, and concise. It’s nice to actually be debating, rather than yelling at each other.

Your first point about the “God State”, the belief in God, is very difficult to explain. Especially how you describe things to the work of God. I think I will try to answer that fully somewhere on my blog, and then perhaps link you to it (It’s again, longer than just a comment), though I guess that does seem like avoidance.

You are correct, JC does talk about being here to bring the sword, and that you should love him above your father, and all that Jazz. This is one of those pieces that I found difficult to deal with, as most people reading the bible do. However, it’s one of those where you need to read on, read the entire passage. All the way to the end. It does seem a bit contradictory, but remember folks, JC spoke in parables. He’s basically saying that Christians will always know conflict from those outside, but if we follow the rest of his advice (turn the other cheek, keep our prayers private, etc), then we will get our reward. Again, an unpalitable concept for those that are missing the first bit about the belief in God. It means that something will show up, it always does. I have to say, that in my experiance, this is true.

(yes, I am aware that this may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, and I’m also aware that it does sound tenuous when put in a context like this).

Your right that Christianity has randomly thrown away stuff it doesn’t like. The bible, for example, was “chosen” as a representative sample of what people thought was relevant. Of course, I think they did a good job. (I am a Christian after all ). I can see your point about doing away with the old testament, and the stories contained therein. Though I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that it sets the scene for JC, shows what he was up against, the rules that governed his life. There is also some useful advice in there, some nice and well-written passages (like bits of proverbs, for example).

I do like the way that you say that it would make the bible more “creditable” if it wasn’t there. You sound very much like I once did until I got my road to Domascus. I think we’re back to the problem of “Faith” vs “Logic”. Though I’m not sure I compleatly agree with you, I’m not sure I can put up any creditable argument for keeping the OT, appart from the fact that there are some nice, and well-written parts of it, and it does contain some stories that have really entered into, and influenced, our Culture. It’s nice to know where they came from.

I like the last part of your argument, that ideologies, theology, what’s the difference? I think I’d like to expand it a little, to a point that we agree on:

Ideology taken to extreeme? Theology taken to the extreeme? Whats the difference?

I think there is a better world, we just have to learn to get along to get there. Relegion, Theology, why does it matter? we’re all human, arn’t we?

SK

Comment from GeoffBoulton
Time: September 7, 2007, 9:56 am

It’s nice to be debating rather than just yelling at one another. I agree with you totally on that one. Thanks for the compliment but it takes two to debate

On the belief in God, whether one believes or not is for the most part, yes I know there are many who find God later in life, a product of the influences in your early childhood. If you are born in Iran you will most likely be a Shia Muslim, in Saudi Arabia a Sunni Muslim and so on and so on. After all, you will have been given your religious guidance by the people you trust most, your parents. If those parents are atheists then what are the chances the child will be an atheist too?

It would seem to me that it would truly be an unjust God that would be prepared to sentence someone to an eternity in hell simply because of an accident of their birth. All the more so since that persons birth, so we are led to believe, is all part of God’s great plan.

I also appreciate that Jesus spoke in parables but I would question the wisdom of a God who chooses to give his message to the world in a manner that is so easily open to interpretation.

Wasn’t this one of the first points raised? that the Bible is so open to interpretation that it can even be used to justify breaking the golden “though shalt not kill” rule if the cause is considered holy enough by certain of its followers?

As for God helping people, I tend to agree more with your self-fulfilling prophesy idea. Isn’t that the very reason we hear “God helps those who help themselves” so often? I heard something recently, can’t remember where, where someone was told “It is your BELIEF in God that helps you, not God”. I have to agree with this statement.

I also have to admit that it also demonstrates that belief can, of itself, be a sufficiently powerful force in peoples life. In reality, the question of whether there IS a God or not is rather superfluous which does make me wonder why so many people feel so threatened by anyone even questioning God’s existence.

On the question of the Old Testament I think, in our own ways, we’re not actually so far apart in our thinking.

On your last point about all getting along together I couldn’t agree more. It is unfortunate therefore that there aren’t more religious people like you around. I currently live in Poland, one of the great bastions of the Catholic church, and face almost daily criticism, dismay or even outright hostility for my, lack of, beliefs mainly from those who would claim to be devout followers of Christ.

Something else I heard, “for many people religion is like a cave man using a torch as a hammer, they’ve completely missed the point”. I’m sure this is a sentiment that you can sympathize with

Comment from Pedro Bermudez
Time: September 7, 2007, 10:46 am

How absurd! I am appalled by the diatribe expressed by both SK and GB. I can’t believe their generalizations such as the simplicity of Hitler and the Jews, or America in the name of democracy, and the like. The truth is that no country wherever the British had dominated is in peace, not in Asia, not in Africa and neither in North America (or have we forgotten slavery?).
The truth is that Europeans have used religion and their armies to try to invade and conquer the rest of the World and have left us with quite a mess, don’t you agree? (India vs. Pakistan, the Middle East, the Americas, Rhodesia, South Africa, even in Australia (just look at the treatment of the aborigines) among many others
All this stems from the fact that Europeans believe themselves holier than thou. Their so called civilization is founded on corruption, nepotism and exploitation (Does it sound familiar? Religion?)
Religion is the by-product of human limitations and people like the Vicar take full advantage of it, as parasites do. This has been going on since the dawn of Humanity and it will continue while uneducated and fragile people roam the Earth. The shame of it all is that religion has been the biggest and most dangerous cancer Humanity had to suffer and it seems it will continue for some time to come.
How many more people will continue to die or suffer in the name of religion?

Comment from Pedro Bermudez
Time: September 7, 2007, 11:23 am

GB there is no difference between the OT and the NT. Ask the Palestinians.

Comment from Donnie
Time: September 7, 2007, 11:38 am

Uh, yeah… It was pretty funny. But not funny enough to read silly posts of people attacking back and forth with silly arguments. In the end nothing is that profound, interesting, brilliant or important.

Every above argument on this thread, beyond whether someone liked it or didn’t like, is flawed. You could argue either side, or expound on each to know end, except hopefully to realize that light humor, is light humor. Laugh at it and let it pass, or ignore it if you are offended.

Don’t take a stance by adding your expounded viewpoints, and you won’t have to fight over whose argument is less absurd.

Have fun continuing this thread, but on the original topic of porn for religious text… I found it generally amusing.

Comment from Pedro Bermudez
Time: September 7, 2007, 12:12 pm

Thx Donnie. You are right: It goes back to SMUT FOR SMUT. And that is the genius of these students.

Comment from Pedro Bermudez
Time: September 7, 2007, 12:33 pm

Donnie I am an American and I was trying to remind these two Brits as to why do they enjoy democracy in their land: WWI and WWII, Germany cannot complain as neither can France nor Italy, which is more that they can say about their country and their role on the ills of the World.
By the way most of us are against the invasion of Iraq which was created by Zionist Neocons in Washington in the name of religion: Judaism vs Islam! And they dragged radical Christians along with it. So much for religion.

Comment from ShadowKnight
Time: September 7, 2007, 4:09 pm

Pedro Bermudez: Sorry to have offended you. I am sorry that my country, in the past, did a great injustice to several parts of the world. I’m glad that they are now trying to fix things. As was said several times before, comments are not the place for long, drawn-out arguments. GB and I, I thought, were actually starting to see each others point. I definately agree with GB’s last point, and with his permission, I’d like to steal that last quote. However, you do appear to have made several points all at once. I’m not going to answer them all, beacause I Think not only does it move VASTLY away from the initial point, but it also stabs widely at things that I think I have already covered. I do not think that tarring some-one with a brush for an accident of birth is fair, in the same way (to answer GB’s point) I don’t think the big G would damn someone to hell for the same.

Donnie: I can also see your point. =) Sorry for getting the thread side-tracked.

On a finall note to GB: Thanks. The main reason I’m trying to join the Clergy is so that I can get this view out there, and try to change things. I gave up on simply staning on my soap-box and whining about it, I decided to do something about it =). Thanks again for a wonderful, rational, debate!

Cheers,

SK

Comment from pb
Time: September 7, 2007, 4:53 pm

A little negative and confrontational…but I support their right to do it completely. I’ve been harangued by plenty of well-meaning bible thumping assholes in my day. In my opinion, exchanging one book of fantasies for another book of fantasies - is perfectly okay. After all…whereas the bible has undeniably brutal and graphic content (people cite it all the time as the source of their hate and rationale for their crimes) - porn on the other hand has never been proven to incite any sane person to violence.

Comment from GeoffBoulton
Time: September 8, 2007, 1:50 am

Watching porn has never been proven to incite any sane person to violence but how about those who make the porn? No violence has ever been used against children to feed the pedophilia market, there has never been a problem with violence being used to traffic people into sex slavery?

Let’s not just pick the good bits and pretend the rest doesn’t exist eh?

ShadowKnight, feel free to look me up at thechurchofgoogle.org/forums there are plenty there who will debate with you although you can expect a few fundy atheists too

Comment from ellesar
Time: September 8, 2007, 1:57 pm

it is perfectly possible to have an ideological objection to the Bible AND porn! I think both absolutely stink. Maybe there are some ‘good’ bits in the bible where you are supposed to be nice to people and all that, but I am perfectly able to work that out for myself thank you. As for porn… I bet all you people writing about how great it is are blokes. Many women dislike/hate porn for the simple reason that most porn hates them! I cannot see anything porno without that constant reminder, and I find it pretty amazing that people can say that it is harmless! Most women/girls in the industry have been sexually abused as children, and many of them still are being abused - in the industry and out of it

Comment from Esteban
Time: September 10, 2007, 6:32 pm

Great idea! I “Stumbledupon” this site and love it. The bible is a scam.

Comment from IntInd
Time: September 11, 2007, 5:15 pm

to GeoffBoulton
while there is questionable porn out there, such as pedophilia, rape and snuff, I doubt that they would be trading it for bibles.

Not all porn, or even very much porn is violent, that’s just the type that attracts the most attention to itself, the violent porn isn’t what causes those violent control fetishes, but rather violent porn is caused by the people who already have those fetishes.

Also, clumping all the types of porn together is like clumping all music, or movies together.

Comment from Dave
Time: September 13, 2007, 7:11 am

What do i get for the First testament? Some girl on girl would be nice. As for the rest of you, pull out yr cocks and get to it. Maybe u could use the holy water to clean up. Get those stains out like magic

Comment from Lindsay
Time: September 13, 2007, 7:35 pm

I just read this, and I find it funny.
Everyone of course is instantly jumping up and down about testaments, bibles, religion, blah blah blah.

And everyone is missing the basic statement:
The bible is smut.

THAT is their statement. They are not saying that porn is great. They’re not saying children should have porn. They’re not saying that whacking off is better than reading the bible.

They are saying that the bible is on the same level as porn. Smut, stupid, and shouldn’t be in the hands of minors. (Thats my spin on it)
It’s a statement, and they’re free to make that statement. Whether I’m christian or not, they’re free to make that statement.
Me? I can’t stand people who are anti-abortionists. Holding signs of dead babies pisses me off. But I let them carry on and shout slogans and stand between the lanes of traffic with their signs. They have just as much right to speak out as I do to walk around. I hate anti-gay groups and anti-semetics, I hate racist people, and i can’t stand sexist people…but really, who am I to tell them that they can’t speak out? It’s when you ACT out that things become a problem. Then we get into the realm of hate crimes and all that. That’s when things get terrible, and messy.

People on this board are missing the point. They’re making a statement. You don’t like it? I can’t say “dont look” cause you obviously have.

If you don’t like it, roll your eyes, mutter a prayer for yourself or whatever, and continue walking. Go have a latte, and move on with your life.

One last note: pornographic magazines are disgusting.
….I keep my porn on my computer

Comment from PDIMIYFAD
Time: September 14, 2007, 7:28 pm

In re: the discussion of religion v. atheism

I have two related questions (and answers to same)

First, if a society is dysfunctional, does that make the person considered by that society’s civil authority as a sociopath, sane?

Answer: In some cases, yes. Note the above discussion about Northern Ireland. I dare say that anyone willing to be known as an ‘atheist’ from that region would have been considered by their peers to be a sociopath, as they chose not to believe as either Protestant or Catholic. This person, unwilling to kill for their religion, must be considered as more sane than one that would take a life in g-ODD’s name.

Second, what does one call a mental illness that affects 90% of the humans on the planet?

Answer: religion (not Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other particular non-secular belief).

For the record, Buddhism is not incompatible with atheism (if you ask a buddhist).

and my nom de web?

It means:

Please Don’t Involve Me In Your “Folie-À-Deity”

Comment from Al
Time: November 22, 2007, 10:28 pm

Have you ever Read the New Testemant!!!! and the old testement never endorses rape, nor the killing of the inocent. those people that Isreal did attack, would sacrifice and thier torture babies. Most of the Old Testement is merely telling of what happened in those days and is considered by many legitamite Universities and Scholars as being the most reliable history book ever written. As for porn how many men and women start out looking horrific and degrading pictures and videos start sexually abusing their children, raping women in parking lots. I believe i have even found a artical in woman’s day magazine of a women that her husband would look at porn, she thought it was normal until he became addicted and their marriage suffered and then she found out he started sexually abusing thier kids and physically abusing her. Studies have shown that an addiction to porn fuels sexual abuse, just as cigarrettes cause cancer. Before pushing an issue maybe you should research it first and see the possibilties for the detriment of society. You know people are always talking about how christians hate, but i have never seen so much disrespect and targeting of one faith. Maybe you should show some respect, so they believe something different than you they still deserve respect because they are people and they have every right to believe the way they do.

Comment from nate
Time: November 28, 2007, 2:25 pm

The fact is that i, for one, refuse to excuse. I will not excuse religious expression, belief, teaching nor especially will i tolerate legislation of religious tenets.

Could you explain this statment a little bit? Are you saying that if you were at a restaurant and saw a christian couple pray over their meal that you would confront them about it (religious expression after all). Or would you enter a church during a Sunday service and be disruptive? (religious teaching). You had another line in your post about tolerance begetting more tolerance. How do you propose to put an end to religion? Do we go back to the days of the Romans and feed christians to lions? Do we imprision law abiding citizens for the crime of christianity? Maybe the death penalty is in order for repeat offenders? A quick study of history shows that regardless of measures used by governments to eradict christianity, It has not been able to stop us. At the very most governmental sanctions and persecutions have forced the christians under ground and winnowed out some lukewarm members. No measure ever imposed has been able to succesfully stop or eradict all vestiges of christianity, nor will there ever be anything that will be able to do so. Our God (you know the one you deny) has promised us that no weapon formed against us shall prosper and over the last few thousand years that has indeed proven to be the case, no reason to doubt it now. Every time that persecution has ever come against christians all it has been able to do is make us stronger. You and others like you have no power at all unless God gives it to you. The bottom line is that while I cannot deny that terrible things have been done in the name of God and in the name of religon, they were done by people who were committed to doing what they wanted and were simply looking for a way to justify their actions. Most christians are people who are law abiding citizens, good neighbors that are quick to lend a hand when needed, and people that are good to be around. Yes I am sure that everyone here has at least one horror story of a “christian” that was judgmental, cruel,…… you fill in the blank, but as I read the Bible that is not what we are to be like and quite frankly I wish people like that would quit naming themselves as christians because they are causing real problems for the rest of us. Now go ahead and rip away.

Comment from UnredeWek
Time: January 14, 2008, 3:08 am

Make love, not war!